Difference between revisions of "Yama Nachiketa Samvada (यमनचिकेतसोः संवादः)"

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The first question and the answer is considered as the sadhaka’s characteristics who is upetra (the beneficiary)  and the others are the Upaya (the process) and Upeya (instrument to execute the process). For one is not calm, Yoga is not possible. This is elucidated in later in the Upanishad (?)<blockquote>"''||na viratho discaritat  nasantho nasamahitaha''"</blockquote><blockquote>"''nasantha manasovapi prajnanena yenam apnuyath || (2.24)''"</blockquote>One who has not given up bad behavior, is not calm & has no control over his senses, however intelligent he may be will be unable to achieve Ishwara by his own efforts.  
 
The first question and the answer is considered as the sadhaka’s characteristics who is upetra (the beneficiary)  and the others are the Upaya (the process) and Upeya (instrument to execute the process). For one is not calm, Yoga is not possible. This is elucidated in later in the Upanishad (?)<blockquote>"''||na viratho discaritat  nasantho nasamahitaha''"</blockquote><blockquote>"''nasantha manasovapi prajnanena yenam apnuyath || (2.24)''"</blockquote>One who has not given up bad behavior, is not calm & has no control over his senses, however intelligent he may be will be unable to achieve Ishwara by his own efforts.  
== Second boon ==
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== The Second boon ==
Now the second boon that Nachiketa asks is we have heard that in ultimate destination there is no fear there is no old-age, no hunger, no thirst nor lamentation, and the God of the death will not enter there. We have heard that. Oh lord of death Oh Yamaraj I have great faith and shradda to achieve this land of ultimate destination and if you know that please explain to me.
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स्वर्गे लोके न भयं किञ्चनास्ति न तत्र त्वं न जरया बिभेति । उभे तीर्त्वा अशनायापिपासे शोकातिगो मोदते स्वर्गलोके ॥ १२॥ (Kath. Upan. 1.1.12)
== The Upanishads talk about Swarga and its explanation: ==
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Meaning : In heaven there is no fear whatsoever - as you are not there and no one there fears old age. Having transcended both hunger and thirst and crossed over sorrow, one rejoices in the heavenly worlds.
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स त्वमग्निँ् स्वर्ग्यमध्येषि मृत्यो प्रब्रूहि त्वँ् श्रद्दधानाय मह्यम् । स्वर्गलोका अमृतत्वं भजन्त एतद् द्वितीयेन वृणे वरेण ॥ १३॥ (Kath. Upan. 1.1.13)
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Meaning : Oh Mrityu ! explicitly tell me - as you who have studied (having the knowledge of) about the Fire as means for attainment of heaven (where aforesaid qualities exist) and where the dwellers have immortality (divinity) - this Knowledge of Fire I seek for, as my second boon.
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Yama replies
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प्र ते ब्रवीमि तदु मे निबोध स्वर्ग्यमग्निं नचिकेतः प्रजानन् ।
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अनन्तलोकाप्तिमथो प्रतिष्ठां विद्धि त्वमेतं निहितं गुहायाम् ॥ १४॥ (Kath. Upan. 1.1.14)
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Meaning :
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लोकादिमग्निं तमुवाच तस्मै या इष्टका यावतीर्वा यथा वा ।
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स चापि तत्प्रत्यवदद्यथोक्तं अथास्य मृत्युः पुनरेवाह तुष्टः ॥ १५॥ (Kath. Upan. 1.1.15)
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Meaning :
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Nachiketa asks is we have heard that in ultimate destination there is no fear there is no old-age, no hunger, no thirst nor lamentation, and the God of the death will not enter there. We have heard that. Oh lord of death Oh Yamaraj I have great faith and shradda to achieve this land of ultimate destination and if you know that please explain to me.
 +
=== Esoteric meaning of Svargaloka ===
 
Here Nachiketa is not asking about swarg (heaven) Even though it indicates the word Swarga loka but these are not the lands where one enjoys sensuality and the land of  of Rambha and Urvasi (Apsaras- celestial beings) and king of devas Indra. Nachiketa is not asking a blessings for such pleasure. Here the word he uses as Swarga has no relation with Swarga loka. These two are totally different. But as a regular usage he used this word. The characteristics of swarga what Nachiketa is describing does not equate with the regular Swarga.  Even if someone goes to Swarga loka or heavenly planets, since it is not permanent, there is a fear of falling down. That makes it temporary. Hence it is clear that Nachiketa had in his mind the place which is free from all kinds of fear. Even the residents of that planet-- devatas even they have the fear of getting disengaged from heavenly planet. And therefore there are many stories of them falling from that place and living incognito. There are many such instances in the puranas. Therefore to conclude that Nachiketa was asking for heavenly place is minimizing and undermining the character of Nachiketa. Therefore the intelligent should understand that the word Swarga (which is used here) is synonymous to the highest planet. 
 
Here Nachiketa is not asking about swarg (heaven) Even though it indicates the word Swarga loka but these are not the lands where one enjoys sensuality and the land of  of Rambha and Urvasi (Apsaras- celestial beings) and king of devas Indra. Nachiketa is not asking a blessings for such pleasure. Here the word he uses as Swarga has no relation with Swarga loka. These two are totally different. But as a regular usage he used this word. The characteristics of swarga what Nachiketa is describing does not equate with the regular Swarga.  Even if someone goes to Swarga loka or heavenly planets, since it is not permanent, there is a fear of falling down. That makes it temporary. Hence it is clear that Nachiketa had in his mind the place which is free from all kinds of fear. Even the residents of that planet-- devatas even they have the fear of getting disengaged from heavenly planet. And therefore there are many stories of them falling from that place and living incognito. There are many such instances in the puranas. Therefore to conclude that Nachiketa was asking for heavenly place is minimizing and undermining the character of Nachiketa. Therefore the intelligent should understand that the word Swarga (which is used here) is synonymous to the highest planet. 
  

Revision as of 16:46, 28 November 2017

Kathopanishad describes in great detail the story of Nachiketa, with lofty thoughts at a very young age, takes upon the consequences of the imperfection he observes in his father's Vaajasrava's performance of Visvajit yagna. Accordingly, upon questioning his father thus he receives the answer that he will be given to Mrityu (Death)

कस्मै मां दास्यसीति ॥ to whom will you offer me to?

मृत्यवे त्वा ददामीति ॥ to Mrityu (Death) I offer you.

So sorrowfully he undertakes the journey to the land of death and awaits the return of Yama at his abode for three nights.

Atithi maryada

When the Yama’s family offered entry and welcome to Nachiketa, he refuses and remains at the gate of Yamapuri for three nights without food as Yama the host was not present. Upon return the gate-keepers address Yama as follows to carry water for Nachiketa.

वैश्वानरः प्रविशति अतिथिर्ब्राह्मणो गृहान् । तस्यैताँ् शान्तिं कुर्वन्ति हर वैवस्वतोदकम् ॥ ७॥ (Kath. Upan. 1.1.7)

Meaning : Like fire a brahmin guest enters the house (of a grhasta). It is wise to quench the fire by offering water, O Vaivasvata!

आशाप्रतीक्षे सङ्गतँ् सूनृतां च इष्टापूर्ते पुत्रपशू्ँ्श्च सर्वान् । एतद्वृङ्क्ते पुरुषस्याल्पमेधसो यस्यानश्नन्वसति ब्राह्मणो गृहे ॥ ८॥ (Kath. Upan. 1.1.8)

Meaning : Hope, expectation, company of holy men, righteousness and good opinion of men, fruits of religious and charitable deeds, sons and cattle - all these - of that man of little intelligence get destroyed in whose house a Brahmin guest stays without taking food.

Yama hastily comes to the gates to receive Nachiketa and duly offers him three boons, one for each night (of his stay) in an act to remedy the evil effect of an honorable guest lying without food at his doorstep.

A spark even though it is just a spark, possesses all the qualities of the fire. Therefore it is not at all surprising that when Nachiketa entered Yamapuri after fasting for three days, Yama’s associates were told to bring him water and give him a resting place immediately. 

Nachiketa who had already reached the platform of immortality has not come to Yamaloka for boons. However, Yamaraja begging Nachketa to ask him for a boon is one of most delightful aspects of this Vedic compilation. Nachiketa was forced to ask the boons, not for himself but as a favour to Yama.

किँ्स्विद्यमस्य कर्तव्यं यन्मयाऽद्य करिष्यति ॥ ५॥ (Kath. Upan. 1.1.5) 

Meaning : what purpose can there of Yama, that my father will achieve through me (by sending me here). 

"What will my father achieve of Yama by sending me to him" was Nachiketa’s first thought as he was coming to Yamapuri, but is received with good reception and grant of boons upon arrival.  

Nachiketa's boons from Yamaraja reveals his sterling qualities and character.  

The first boon

शान्तसङ्कल्पः सुमना यथा स्याद्वीतमन्युर्गौतमो माभिमृत्यो । त्वत्प्रसृष्टं माऽभिवदेत्प्रतीत एतत् त्रयाणां प्रथम वरं वृणे ॥ १०॥ (Kath. Upan. 1.1.10)

Meaning : Oh Mrityu, give me as the first boon, that Gautama (my father), have शान्तसङ्कल्पः calmness (free from anxiety on my account), सुमना be pleased in mind वीतमन्युः free from anger towards me, and greet me with the same old affection, when sent back by you.

Yama is pleased and replies  

यथा पुरस्ताद्भविता प्रतीत औद्दालकिरारुणिर्मत्प्रसृष्टः । सुखँ् रात्रीः शयिता वीतमन्युः त्वां ददृशिवान्मृत्युमुखात् प्रमुक्तम् ॥ ११॥ (Kath. Upan. 1.1.11) 

Meaning : Your father Auddalakiaruni will consider you as affectionately as he does normally and will be freed from anger.  When you return from the jaws of death, he will get over his anger and with my blessings will for many nights henceforth be happily resting. 

Esoteric meaning

The first boon asked by Nachiketa indicates what one needs to do for achieving the highest perfection, parama purusha. Nachiketa’s father who was angry, was simply an instrument in giving the message that anger has to be controlled by a sadhaka.  The prayers offered by Nachiketa is the secondary characteristics which sadhakas must have.  

Explanation in Brahma-sutras

Sri Vedavyas in the sutra (Anumanika adhikarana in the Brahma sutra),

"trayanameva caivam upanyasa prasnasca || (1.4.6)"

explains that the entire Katho Upanishad is the compilation of these 3 questions and the answers to the questions. The first question and the answer is considered as the sadhaka’s characteristics who is upetra (the beneficiary)  and the others are the Upaya (the process) and Upeya (instrument to execute the process). For one is not calm, Yoga is not possible. This is elucidated in later in the Upanishad (?)

"||na viratho discaritat  nasantho nasamahitaha"

"nasantha manasovapi prajnanena yenam apnuyath || (2.24)"

One who has not given up bad behavior, is not calm & has no control over his senses, however intelligent he may be will be unable to achieve Ishwara by his own efforts.  

The Second boon

स्वर्गे लोके न भयं किञ्चनास्ति न तत्र त्वं न जरया बिभेति । उभे तीर्त्वा अशनायापिपासे शोकातिगो मोदते स्वर्गलोके ॥ १२॥ (Kath. Upan. 1.1.12)

Meaning : In heaven there is no fear whatsoever - as you are not there and no one there fears old age. Having transcended both hunger and thirst and crossed over sorrow, one rejoices in the heavenly worlds.

स त्वमग्निँ् स्वर्ग्यमध्येषि मृत्यो प्रब्रूहि त्वँ् श्रद्दधानाय मह्यम् । स्वर्गलोका अमृतत्वं भजन्त एतद् द्वितीयेन वृणे वरेण ॥ १३॥ (Kath. Upan. 1.1.13)

Meaning : Oh Mrityu ! explicitly tell me - as you who have studied (having the knowledge of) about the Fire as means for attainment of heaven (where aforesaid qualities exist) and where the dwellers have immortality (divinity) - this Knowledge of Fire I seek for, as my second boon.

Yama replies प्र ते ब्रवीमि तदु मे निबोध स्वर्ग्यमग्निं नचिकेतः प्रजानन् । अनन्तलोकाप्तिमथो प्रतिष्ठां विद्धि त्वमेतं निहितं गुहायाम् ॥ १४॥ (Kath. Upan. 1.1.14)

Meaning : लोकादिमग्निं तमुवाच तस्मै या इष्टका यावतीर्वा यथा वा । स चापि तत्प्रत्यवदद्यथोक्तं अथास्य मृत्युः पुनरेवाह तुष्टः ॥ १५॥ (Kath. Upan. 1.1.15)

Meaning :

Nachiketa asks is we have heard that in ultimate destination there is no fear there is no old-age, no hunger, no thirst nor lamentation, and the God of the death will not enter there. We have heard that. Oh lord of death Oh Yamaraj I have great faith and shradda to achieve this land of ultimate destination and if you know that please explain to me.

Esoteric meaning of Svargaloka

Here Nachiketa is not asking about swarg (heaven) Even though it indicates the word Swarga loka but these are not the lands where one enjoys sensuality and the land of  of Rambha and Urvasi (Apsaras- celestial beings) and king of devas Indra. Nachiketa is not asking a blessings for such pleasure. Here the word he uses as Swarga has no relation with Swarga loka. These two are totally different. But as a regular usage he used this word. The characteristics of swarga what Nachiketa is describing does not equate with the regular Swarga.  Even if someone goes to Swarga loka or heavenly planets, since it is not permanent, there is a fear of falling down. That makes it temporary. Hence it is clear that Nachiketa had in his mind the place which is free from all kinds of fear. Even the residents of that planet-- devatas even they have the fear of getting disengaged from heavenly planet. And therefore there are many stories of them falling from that place and living incognito. There are many such instances in the puranas. Therefore to conclude that Nachiketa was asking for heavenly place is minimizing and undermining the character of Nachiketa. Therefore the intelligent should understand that the word Swarga (which is used here) is synonymous to the highest planet. 

For e.g. in Keno Upanishad that Indra, Agni, Vayu, and the other devatas, it is explained that person who understands brahma vidya is freed from all kalmasha and contamination and will achieve highest place of swarga and will achieve permanent place. That is the conclusion of that Upanishad. But here the word is not swarga but that is highest destination.

"yo va yetham evam veda apahathya papananama ananthe"

"swarge loke jyehe prati tishti pratitishtati (4.9)"

In Aithreya Upanishad, Vamadeva Rishi while glorifying the brahma jnana he explains the fruit of that Brahma jnana, while praising its worth. Those who understand the fruits, after quitting the body are raised to swarga and after fulfilling all their desire, they became immortal, this is emphasised by repetition achieving liberation.   Here also we can understand that the Swarga is nothing but the higher planet and all the acaryas have explained and accepted this. 

"||sa evam vidvan asmacharira bedadurdvam"

"Utkramya amushmin svarge loke sarvan"

"Kamanaptva amruta samabhavat samabhavat || (2.4)"

In the Chandogya Upanishad 8.4.5 in that section, that paramapada or the final/great place of destination is described as Brahma loka apahata papma esa brahma lokaha this planet is the third from the earthly planet. In that land there are forests knows as Ara, and nyas,.  There are lakes knows asairam-madi There are ashwatha tree, whcih is called as Somasavan, The eternal place of lord called Aparajitha the city of Aparajitha is existing in that place.   There is hiranya –golden hued pandal. Only those who practice brahmacarya, achieve this planet.  This clearly indicates that this is not the land of caturmukha,  Sruti does not explain any other higher planet than this Brahmaloka. 

In Kaushitaki Upanishad has same explanation is there,  in (1.21.67) Those who are on the path of Devayana( path of devatas), their ultimate destination is brhamaloka.  Just like the above description of lake, forest and beautiful pandal is also mentioned here. Here Brahmapura is described as Aparajitha that means undefeatable. The transaction of jivas journey towards Paramatma is called as Paryanka vidya,  This is explained in such way that  the vedantis can relish it

In Mundaka Upanishad 1.2.6 The final destination of arichiradi path is called as  the place where people travel is called archiradi.

"Esha vaha punyah sukrito brahma lokah."

It is amruthamaya or nectarean place  in that place parama purusha resides. This is explained in 1.2.11 and therefore all this can give us the clear understanding that this is the same parama pada.

"Yasyarvagnya sarva vitha yasmaisa mahima buhi"

divye brahma pure haiva yo mnyatma  pratishitaha (2.2.7) One who is all knowing bhagvantha(Bhagavan) is residing in brahmapura. Same paramdhama is  It is explained in 3.2.11. as Para brahma dhama bandhu in 3.2.4; braham dhama in 3.2.6--it is described as  brahama loka.

in the Prashnopanishat,(1.15) it is called as Brahmaloka, in (5.5) it is described, that  the planet which is higher than all other lokas, the lord of the Brahmaloka is resting in Yoga nidra, as Purishaya,(Just like Sri Ranganath deity).  In this way the highest platform is called as swarga and Brahamaloka.

The meaning of 2nd question and Yama’s kindness.

What is the significance of Nachiketa’s 2nd question, especially when seen from a spiritual perspective?  That means, he was asking for moksha, which is known as amruta prapti(nectarian position)beyond birth and death,  which gives the limitless fruits, it is the highest purushartha.  The 1st question was asked from upetra’s perspective.  Here he is asking from upaya’s perspective, the process.    

Yamaraja, in reply to this question, spoke,  – Hey Nachiketa, listen to me! Attentively hear, now I would instruct you about the agni-vidya and if you understand this agni-vidya then you will experience the unlimited loka which is nothing but parama-pada and from there you will never come back; rather you will be installed there forever. This knowledge is completely secret but others even though it is there in their heart, they will not understand as you are understanding." Therefore Yamaraja, made Nachiketa to repeat the knowledge. Here Yamaraja’s description of highest loka being eternal and unlimited indicates that the swarga mentioned here is not the ordinary swarga, but eternal abode.   

Yamaraja also benedicted Nachiketa by saying that in future, agni-vidya will be called as Nachiketa-agni. The functioning of this agni, and how to install it is explained in the Taittirya brahmana 3.11.7 and 9. Those who are the knower of the Vedas they explain- this is the good cause of Brahma upasana and cause for liberation and while studying three anuwaka, while performing three kinds of actions; yagna, adhyana and dana, or perfroming paka yagna, haviyshya yajna, and somayajna.  

"One who perform these yagnas and then be connected with that agni, in this way one who attains connection with Paramatma, he crosses over birth and death and he becomes immortal. The living entity, which appears from Paramatma and by his grace who understands Paramatma and he becomes Brahma –agya, this is real knowledge. And one who does not understand then he does not know his swarupa- constitutional nature but one who understands the nature of Paramatma, who is worthy of glorification, worships him and experiences his presence, ultimately achieves peace.  This is the way  Yama glorifies Nachiketa-agni.  It is very clear that,  if Nachiketa had gone to the regular heaven, the land of gratification, which is full of bhoga bhumi of Indra then Yamaraja would not have glorified the real swarga in such a beautiful language. It is significant that, Yamaraja himself is talking about that agni which is beneficial to crossing over birth and death.   In the  future mantras the person who has realized the anuwakas, which are related to Nachiketagni, such person before quitting the body, first, he becomes frees from the noose of death, crosses over the miserable ocean, achieves the highest destiny which is parampada, therein, he experiences eternal bliss.  This is nothing but moksha.  This is explained in Kathopanishad. Thereofore , there is no doubt that Yamaraja’s answer to the  second question is the grace offered by him to Nachiketa to achieve Brahama achievement, through the nachiketa-agni.""

The Third Boon

The heart of the Upanishad and the essence of the Vedas is discussed in the response to the third query. Yamaraja requests Nachiketa to ask for a third boon and Nachiketa uses the boon to clarify a doubt:

"I am confused as to when a human being dies, some argue that he continues to live and some say he has died. Please clear my confusion."

What is the meaning of this benediction?

Nachiketa’s question is very subtle and its significance needs to be understood. It can be said  that the entire maha purva paksha of vedanta  is hidden in this question. The question resembles Arjuna’s question in the 1st chapter of the Bhagvad Gita. The Charvaka school tells that there is no atma, separate from the body. The Charvaka’s philosophy has been one of the oldest and most prominent opponents of Vedanta philosophy.  

The intelligent persons may ask whether Nachiketa’s question is  similar to the Charvaka school of thought?   If Nachiketa’s question was indicating that there is no atma beyond the body, and even if the atma exists, he does not  understand or believe in its existence?  If this is true, then why would Nachiketa ask Yamaraja about Paramapada (highest destination) for the atma which the Charvakas claim does not exist? Charvaka followers do not believe in the other world, but Nachiketa after understanding about atma, shows great faith in the highest spiritual abode, knowing the destination of jiva to be that abode. It is only after understanding this that one can think or discuss the process of  achieving that place. Therefore, Nachiketa is not questioning the existence of soul. Then what could be the meaning of such a question? (12-3-17)

The ||swarupa () of the ||Jiva () at ||moksha () is the subject of the Nachiketa’s question.

Even in Nachiketa’s time there were some people who accepted that the body as temporary and atma is eternl, here and there.  There were different understanding about life after death, lot of speculation and debate would happen.  Similarly there were diveristy of understanding in regards to Moksha.  For eg:- presently also it is observed that many different understanding are there in regards to mukti.

  1. In the Nirishwara sankhya philosophy and similar other philosophers, believe that body is flitting and the atma is nirlepa (without any covering) and free from any qualities, hence  it is only a witness. This raises question about what they are  trying to say, is  that the atma exists?  Does it describe the existence of  atma in moksha or indirectly saying the atma does not exist? 
  2. Similar to Sankhya philosophy, Jains accepts that there are planets beyond this planet but do not believe in the relationship between Jiva and Paramatma. Jain philosophers reject that the Lord is the master of the param pada and the relationship between the Jiva and the Paramatma.  Notably, in the same breath they talk of the existence of the atma but also present that in ||moksha (), the atma is non-existent. That means the different debate in defining moksha decides the existence or non existence of atma. Jain, Buddhist, Sankhya, Carvaka or any other philosophy differed from  may not have been in the same fashion as it is now, but even in the past in whatever name and form they were existing, they were always at loggerheads with Vedanta philosophy.  This has led to confusion amongst seekers rather than knowledge. In Mahabharata during Yaksha praksha Yudhisthira raises this same point in regards to confusion amongst the so-called philosophers. 

If somebody wants to establish logically alone the concept of paramartha (the highest destination) but logic does not have its foundation.   If one wants to  hear from sruti vakyas they may therefore appear contradictory as there could be many interpretations and conclusions, even though the rishis may have the same habits, honesty and great qualities.  That means the truth and rtha has been hidden in the heart of every living entity but not manifested.  Therefore, it must be said that only the behaviour of great personalities is the real guiding principles for all (Mahabharata aranya parva 313-118).

While there is difference between the Vedic school and other philosophies, even within the Vedic traditions there are different approaches, every one trying to prove their points, therefore Dharmaraj explains this facts to Yaksha. The following verse from the Mundaka (3.2.8) is an example.

"||Yatha nadyaha skandamanaha samudreastangacchati nama rupe vihaya||"

When the river merges into the ocean, it is compared to the Jiva merging with the Paramatma and this is Moksha. But some questions are asked,

When the river enters into the ocean, where does its water go? 

When the waters of the river ceases to exist, then what happens to its personality (Nature??)? 

Does the river disappear or was the existence of the river an illusion? 

After the merger, is it possible for the river to survive? 

When the river merges into the ocean, what does the river experience?

When the river merges into the ocean, who experiences, the non existent river?  This is one meaningless.  The serious question is who achieves mukti and who is bound?  If Atma is only identified with his ego, then with the disappearance of ego the atma cease to existence, this is the destruction of atma in mukti.  

"||Ahama artho na cedatma jiva ityadvasyathi||"

If we preach such Vedanta,

"||Apasasarpe dasau moksha kathaa prastava gandhatha "

people simply by hearing about moksha, they will run way.  Because  everyone wants to be part of that bliss and completeness.   The so called moksha of non existence, which is not mentioned in the vedanta,if it is going to happen,where in one’s existence is annihilated, why would particular individual aspire for it?  Therefore in the analogy of river, many doubts come to the forefront.    If Yagnavalkya is asked, he said in   (brahada 2.4.4.12),

"na pretya sajnyasi"

, after death there is no consciousness, that means one of the  main character of jiva is consciousness, is it missing in death?  If the answer is yes, it means, it is the destruction of atma.   If the answer is yes, then why Yagnavalkya said in such a way.   if it is not there then he  has said, vignana ghana yeva.  What is the difference between the science of living and indication of death?   This was not understood by Maitreyi, who was herself Brahmavadini, even after hearing from Yagnavalkya.  What to speak of us?   Yagnavalkya himself says ( 4.3.23 to 30) in other place also he explains; in mukti for one who wants to see and one who wants hear there is no loss of either one,  Hearer or hearing, or seeing or seer.  There is no loss in knower’s knowledge, because it is free from destruction.   just like, when woman and man are in an embrace, similarly, when  atma is merged in the bliss of embrace of the paramatma, transcends the external and internal consciousness.  The atma stays in integrated experience.(4..2. 21).  They are not mad, but how will we understand this properly?  If Jiva does not remain in Mukti, how will develop or even endeavour for  taste about mukti.  One may ask what will atma  gain and loose in mukti?   If one is told that, it cannot be explained but experienced, some people may argue, who needs sruti? Who cares for vedanta discussion?  Those who are fools,  drunk and  unconscious  argue that, they are in mukti, how will you convince them that they are not?  It is big confusion.  Nachiketa must have heard so much arguments in this regard in his father’s place.   therefore he must be asking such specific question to Yamaraja.  Where Yudhisthira was tired but this young lad is boldly asking.  

References

  1. Veda samskrita Parichaya  
  2. Text from http://ignca.nic.in/vedic_portal_yajurveda_Krishna_Kathopanisad01.htm  
  3. Kathopanishad by Sris Chandra Vasuhttps://archive.org/stream/KathaUpanisad/Katha_upani%E1%B9%A3ad#page/n11/mode/1up  
  4. Kathopanishad from Eight Upanishads Vol 1 Translated by Swami Gambhiranand http://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-Vol-1.pdf  
  5. Dialogues from Upanishads