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Sarama Pani Samvada (सरमापणिसंवादः) (view source)
Revision as of 13:07, 1 August 2017
, 13:07, 1 August 2017new pg
This episode glorifies the Vedas, the brahma jnanis and describes the nature of life, talks about the destination of iha and para () and the importance of brahma jnani achieving the knowledge. It is explained in very esoteric language.
== The cows, the panis and the Angirasa ==
In the RgVeda (10.108), there is a story in connection to the cows it is explained very beautifully with great deep meaning. Panis were demons who stole the cows and hid them in a cave. Indra asked his dog Sarme to find the cows. Sarme was able to find the cows where abouts. During that search, there was a important discussion between the panis (the demons) and Sarme. And one should accept them by understanding the deeper meaning. This episode is about the discussion between Sarme and the panis who tried to tempt Sarme.
Panis said: “Oh Sarme, what do you want and why have you traveled such a long distance. This is a difficult path and there is the river rasa right in the middle of the road. How did you cross the river and why did you make the effort? Why have you come here?”
Sarme said, Oh panis, I am the servant of Indra. The cows who were missing are our treasure and I came here looking for them. The river gave way to us in fear as it knew that if it didnt we would totally occupy them.”
The panis spoke “Oh you are only a servant, yet you have such power? If you have so much power, imagine how much powerful your master Indra must be? How handsome must he be? We should befriend Sarme. Let Sarme become the master of cows”
Sarme spoke:“Oh panis! Indra can’t be destroyed. He can destroy all of you! The fact that I have come here shows Indra’s power. No river, however deep can keep Indra away! You have brought your death closer.”
The Panis spoke with great anger “Ye Sarme! You are really fortunate. This is the end of ||du loka (). You are now in difficult terrain, but what difference does it make? We are not so foolish to give up the cows without a fight. We have got all kinds of sharp weapons.”
Sarme spoke “this is not befitting for warriors. Your body is not meant for arrows as it is full of sin. As your path is not dharmic, even Brihaspathi cannot make ur words and body happy.” The Panis retorted, “this is mountainous terrain and so for someone to come here is difficult and the cows are safely hidden. We have all kinds of security, horses and unlimited prosperity and our soldiers are alert. Therefore, your coming is useless.”
Sarme replies, “So what? Angirasa muni who has drunk the powerful Soma rasa will come with “aayasya” and they will distribute those cows with themselves then your words will be futile and useless.”
The panis then give up threatening Sarme and use samopaya danopaya and try to capture him. “Ye Sarme, you would not have come if the devathas did not give you the power. So in one sense, you are helpless. We can make you our sister. You are afraid to go back without the cows, but you need not worry, stay here become auspicious and we will distribute the cow amongst ourselves.
Sarme is not tempted, he says, “I do not understand what you are saying, about making me your sister. Indra and Angirasa understand everything. Behind me, there are devathas who are “gokamara”. They already surround this area, please understand. Please run away from here. Brihaspathi, Soma, Angirasa let the cows achieve the same stone which sucks the juice of soma rasa. This sukta doesn’t continue with the story, but in Saunaka’s “brihad devatha” chapter 8 and from the other part of Vedas, we have collected and continued the story. In Sayana’s commentary, it is written that Sarme’s episode with the Panis was commmunicated to Indra who kills them and brings back the cows.
== Description in the Brihad devatha ==
Sarme after saying that he does not have any relationship with both of you, says that she or he did not desire any prosperity or money but wanted a little milk from those cows that Panis had hid.
||sabradim naha iccamisa svathavamva dhananiva ide yamthu payasthasam gavamyasthaniguhathaha|| (8.30). Tempted by the milk Sarme after drinking the water and her nature not being too strong (“svabhavasca laulyas ca”) she was tempted by the milk. Sarme was very appreciative of the milk and she crossed the Rasanadi and gave Indra a false report. Indra realised that Sarme’s report was false and wondered at the reason for the change in the character of Sarme? Saunaka explained that Sarme changed because of ‘prabhavath asurasthu“, that is even though the milk of cows was divine, but because of the Asuric influence, Sarme’s character had changed. Then Indra using his power kicked Sarme to get out the real truth and immediately Sarme vomited all the milk given by demons ||taam jagan padankruddahaudgiranthu hi payasthatha ha|| Sarme became very fearful and in her fear she walked towards the place of Panis. Indra who had followed Sarme on his Ari vahana killed all the panis and brought back the cows.
== The perspective of the Westerns ==
This story is called the “story of stealing the cows”, “ Go grahana”. This story is interpreted by Indologists and their followers through the Aryan-dravidian race theory. For them the panis are the Mulnivasis, the original native people of india, the Dravidians, they were the “dasyus”. The Aryans came from outside who owned the cows. There was constant conflict between the Dravidians and the Aryans. The Dravidians would hide the cows of Aryans repeatedly and one of such episodes is described here and that is their understanding.
Volume 3 Chapter 1B Part 6
== The Perception of the Western Indologists ==
There is a story in the Vedas about stealing of cows. When self-styled western historians studied this story they interpretd the panis () as “Dasyus” () or Dravidians, the term coined by Bishop Caldwell to .s. When the Aryans came from the borders beyond India, there was clash between the Aryans and the Dravidians and the Dravidians used to steal the cows--and that is the story that is mentioned in the Vedas. This is the conclusion given by the endologists. If it was true, then what is the role of Sarme, Indra’s dog? Is Sarme a historical character? If so, was it true that dogs could speak in the Vedic period? What is the meaning of the discussion between Sarme and the Panis? What is the place beyond the Rasa River? Is it a physical place? If Indra had to release the cows, then is Indra an historical personality? If that is true, then is it Indra’s right to claim that Indra is Arya and he was victorious against the Panis? Or to consider that Panis are some kind of group of people. If Angirasa is brahmana, how come he had pet dogs, as a Brahmana why was he taking care of dogs? If he was not a brahamana then does he talk about the deeper definition of the cow? What is the meaning of Angirasa? Why did they who bring a dog instead of horse? Is it true that Aryans raised dogs, instead of cows and horses? Was that true that Dravidians did not have dogs with them? Why the Panis did not let lose dogs on Sarme? And see them fight with each other? Why did they kept on discussing with the dog? Why are there name related to dogs in Vedas: suna, saunaka, sunaka, sunasshepa, etc., Why would they have such names connected to dogs?
== Some Explanation ==
Panis are basically the enemies of Indra, Soma, Agni, Brihaspathi and Angiras and their residential place is the Vayu Mandal. If you accept as truth that the Vedas descriptions of the dogs, then why is the Vedic description of the Panis residential place seen as untruth? Why this selective acceptance of truth? Here “Pani” word can be used as a miserly, tight-fisted person. They are called “Indra Sathru” enemies of Indra: vala, bala. If we accept cows as defined in the previous chapter, then it could be said that Panis are the powers that can stop the progress of knowledge. The suktas we can understand that the panis are the “jnana apaharaka Shakti (the robbers of knowledge). This indicates the struggle to acquire the knowledge. The dog that comes here is nothing but devaduthi (agent of the devatas) or the chitta (consciousness) which is always conscious in every living entity. The dog of the devathas is always alert and awake and has the power to know everything. She symbolically represents finding out the inner difficulties of living entities.
== The cows, the panis and the Angirasa ==
In the RgVeda (10.108), there is a story in connection to the cows it is explained very beautifully with great deep meaning. Panis were demons who stole the cows and hid them in a cave. Indra asked his dog Sarme to find the cows. Sarme was able to find the cows where abouts. During that search, there was a important discussion between the panis (the demons) and Sarme. And one should accept them by understanding the deeper meaning. This episode is about the discussion between Sarme and the panis who tried to tempt Sarme.
Panis said: “Oh Sarme, what do you want and why have you traveled such a long distance. This is a difficult path and there is the river rasa right in the middle of the road. How did you cross the river and why did you make the effort? Why have you come here?”
Sarme said, Oh panis, I am the servant of Indra. The cows who were missing are our treasure and I came here looking for them. The river gave way to us in fear as it knew that if it didnt we would totally occupy them.”
The panis spoke “Oh you are only a servant, yet you have such power? If you have so much power, imagine how much powerful your master Indra must be? How handsome must he be? We should befriend Sarme. Let Sarme become the master of cows”
Sarme spoke:“Oh panis! Indra can’t be destroyed. He can destroy all of you! The fact that I have come here shows Indra’s power. No river, however deep can keep Indra away! You have brought your death closer.”
The Panis spoke with great anger “Ye Sarme! You are really fortunate. This is the end of ||du loka (). You are now in difficult terrain, but what difference does it make? We are not so foolish to give up the cows without a fight. We have got all kinds of sharp weapons.”
Sarme spoke “this is not befitting for warriors. Your body is not meant for arrows as it is full of sin. As your path is not dharmic, even Brihaspathi cannot make ur words and body happy.” The Panis retorted, “this is mountainous terrain and so for someone to come here is difficult and the cows are safely hidden. We have all kinds of security, horses and unlimited prosperity and our soldiers are alert. Therefore, your coming is useless.”
Sarme replies, “So what? Angirasa muni who has drunk the powerful Soma rasa will come with “aayasya” and they will distribute those cows with themselves then your words will be futile and useless.”
The panis then give up threatening Sarme and use samopaya danopaya and try to capture him. “Ye Sarme, you would not have come if the devathas did not give you the power. So in one sense, you are helpless. We can make you our sister. You are afraid to go back without the cows, but you need not worry, stay here become auspicious and we will distribute the cow amongst ourselves.
Sarme is not tempted, he says, “I do not understand what you are saying, about making me your sister. Indra and Angirasa understand everything. Behind me, there are devathas who are “gokamara”. They already surround this area, please understand. Please run away from here. Brihaspathi, Soma, Angirasa let the cows achieve the same stone which sucks the juice of soma rasa. This sukta doesn’t continue with the story, but in Saunaka’s “brihad devatha” chapter 8 and from the other part of Vedas, we have collected and continued the story. In Sayana’s commentary, it is written that Sarme’s episode with the Panis was commmunicated to Indra who kills them and brings back the cows.
== Description in the Brihad devatha ==
Sarme after saying that he does not have any relationship with both of you, says that she or he did not desire any prosperity or money but wanted a little milk from those cows that Panis had hid.
||sabradim naha iccamisa svathavamva dhananiva ide yamthu payasthasam gavamyasthaniguhathaha|| (8.30). Tempted by the milk Sarme after drinking the water and her nature not being too strong (“svabhavasca laulyas ca”) she was tempted by the milk. Sarme was very appreciative of the milk and she crossed the Rasanadi and gave Indra a false report. Indra realised that Sarme’s report was false and wondered at the reason for the change in the character of Sarme? Saunaka explained that Sarme changed because of ‘prabhavath asurasthu“, that is even though the milk of cows was divine, but because of the Asuric influence, Sarme’s character had changed. Then Indra using his power kicked Sarme to get out the real truth and immediately Sarme vomited all the milk given by demons ||taam jagan padankruddahaudgiranthu hi payasthatha ha|| Sarme became very fearful and in her fear she walked towards the place of Panis. Indra who had followed Sarme on his Ari vahana killed all the panis and brought back the cows.
== The perspective of the Westerns ==
This story is called the “story of stealing the cows”, “ Go grahana”. This story is interpreted by Indologists and their followers through the Aryan-dravidian race theory. For them the panis are the Mulnivasis, the original native people of india, the Dravidians, they were the “dasyus”. The Aryans came from outside who owned the cows. There was constant conflict between the Dravidians and the Aryans. The Dravidians would hide the cows of Aryans repeatedly and one of such episodes is described here and that is their understanding.
Volume 3 Chapter 1B Part 6
== The Perception of the Western Indologists ==
There is a story in the Vedas about stealing of cows. When self-styled western historians studied this story they interpretd the panis () as “Dasyus” () or Dravidians, the term coined by Bishop Caldwell to .s. When the Aryans came from the borders beyond India, there was clash between the Aryans and the Dravidians and the Dravidians used to steal the cows--and that is the story that is mentioned in the Vedas. This is the conclusion given by the endologists. If it was true, then what is the role of Sarme, Indra’s dog? Is Sarme a historical character? If so, was it true that dogs could speak in the Vedic period? What is the meaning of the discussion between Sarme and the Panis? What is the place beyond the Rasa River? Is it a physical place? If Indra had to release the cows, then is Indra an historical personality? If that is true, then is it Indra’s right to claim that Indra is Arya and he was victorious against the Panis? Or to consider that Panis are some kind of group of people. If Angirasa is brahmana, how come he had pet dogs, as a Brahmana why was he taking care of dogs? If he was not a brahamana then does he talk about the deeper definition of the cow? What is the meaning of Angirasa? Why did they who bring a dog instead of horse? Is it true that Aryans raised dogs, instead of cows and horses? Was that true that Dravidians did not have dogs with them? Why the Panis did not let lose dogs on Sarme? And see them fight with each other? Why did they kept on discussing with the dog? Why are there name related to dogs in Vedas: suna, saunaka, sunaka, sunasshepa, etc., Why would they have such names connected to dogs?
== Some Explanation ==
Panis are basically the enemies of Indra, Soma, Agni, Brihaspathi and Angiras and their residential place is the Vayu Mandal. If you accept as truth that the Vedas descriptions of the dogs, then why is the Vedic description of the Panis residential place seen as untruth? Why this selective acceptance of truth? Here “Pani” word can be used as a miserly, tight-fisted person. They are called “Indra Sathru” enemies of Indra: vala, bala. If we accept cows as defined in the previous chapter, then it could be said that Panis are the powers that can stop the progress of knowledge. The suktas we can understand that the panis are the “jnana apaharaka Shakti (the robbers of knowledge). This indicates the struggle to acquire the knowledge. The dog that comes here is nothing but devaduthi (agent of the devatas) or the chitta (consciousness) which is always conscious in every living entity. The dog of the devathas is always alert and awake and has the power to know everything. She symbolically represents finding out the inner difficulties of living entities.