Narada Sanatkumara Samvada (नारदसनत्कुमारयोः संवादः)

The tattva or nature and knowledge of the Brahman is often revealed in different Upanishads, in the conversations between different rushis, between rishis and kings and ultimately in student teacher dialogues. The dialogues between Uddalaka and Svetaketu in Chandogya Upanishad, between Yagnavalkya and Janaka Maharaja in Brhadaranyaka Upanishad are intricate and highly instructive.

Kathopanishad vividly describes the conversation between Yama and Nachiketa and the process of transiting to the higher realms. Prasnopanishad so named because of the Prasnas or questions being answered by sages like Pippalada, dealing with the subject of Jnana and Karma and the path to Brahmaloka. The conversation about Brahmavidya between Saunaka rishi and Angiras is the subject matter Mundakopanishad.

Chandogya Upanishad a treasure house of Upasana methods, has different aspects of Brahmavidya discussed between Satyakama Jabali and Gautama, Upakosala and Satyakama while the Panchagnividya is elucidated through the conversation of Svetaketu and Pravahana Jaivali King. In Chapter 6 of the Chandogya Upanishad is another famous conversation between Narada and Sanathkumar, who are both Brahma manasaputras and highly enlightened maharshis.

Narada Sanathkumara Samvaadam

The fact that supreme good was not attained by Narada, even though he was endowed with the faculties and capabilities of all knowledge. For this reason, having renounced all his pride of excellent lineage, knowledge, conduct and capabilities, like any ordinary person, he approaches Sanathkumara, for obtaining the supreme good - this in itself shows that the knowledge of the Self is the only means to attain the Absolute Brahman.

Narada maharshi approached Sanatkumara and requested him to teach him Brahmajnana so that he could quieten his disturbed mind. Sanatkumara asks him what knowledge base he already has and accordingly instruct him beyond that knowledge. (Chan. Upan. 6.1.1)

ऋग्वेदं भगवोऽध्येमि यजुर्वेदँ् सामवेदमाथर्वणं चतुर्थमितिहासपुराणं पञ्चमं वेदानां वेदं पित्र्यँ् राशिं दैवं निधिं वाकोवाक्यमेकायनं देवविद्यां ब्रह्मविद्यां भूतविद्यां क्षत्रविद्यां नक्षत्रविद्यां सर्पदेवज्ञविद्यामेतद्भगवोऽध्येमि ||(Chan. Upan. 6.1.2)

Meaning : Narada replies: "Bhagavan, I know the Rigveda, Yajurveda, Samaveda and Atharvana the fourth veda. As the 5th the Itihasa (history) and Puranas, the Veda of Vedas namely Vyakarana (grammar), Pitrya (Shraddha kalpa or the rites for the forefathers), गनित||Ganita (Mathematics), दैव || Daiva ( the science of portents), निधि || Nidhi (the science of time), वाकोवाक्य || Vakovaakya (logic) एकायन || Ekayana (ethics and politics), देवविद्या || Deva vidya (Etymology) ब्रह्मविद्या || Brahmavidya (the science of the Vedas, including vedangas) भूतविद्या || Bhutavidya (science of elements), क्षत्रविद्या || Kshtravidya (Science of war or Dhanurveda), नक्षत्रविद्या || nakshatra vidya (science of stars or astronomy), सर्पदेवज्ञविद्या || Sarpavidya (science of snakecharming and fine arts). All these I know, Bhagavan.

सोऽहं भगवो मन्त्रविदेवास्मि नाऽऽत्मविच्छुतँ्ह्येव मे भगवोद्दृशेभ्यस्तरति शोकमात्मविदिति सोऽहं भगवः शोचामि तं मा भगवा ञ्छोकस्य परां तारयत्विति तँहोवाच यद्वै किंचैतदध्यगीष्ठानामैवैतत् || (Chan. Upan. 6.1.3)

Meaning: Narada continues - In the Vedas, I know only the external sound of the word (mantra) and I am not an आत्मविद् || atmavid ( being situated in atma). I have heard that people like you, that one who knows the Self passes beyond sorrow and have transcended misery. So I am in grief, do help me overcome this grief of mine. Narada rishi appeals to Sanatkumara to free him from his current state of misery just as Saunaka rishi in the Mundhaka Upanishad appeals to the Grihastha, Angirasa - "what is that when understood is equal to knowing everything?"

नाम वा ऋग्वेदो यजुर्वेदः सामवेद अथर्वणश्चतुर्थ इतिहासपुराणः पञ्चमो वेदानां वेदः पित्र्यो राशिदैवो निधिर्वाकोवाक्यमेकायनं देवविद्या ब्रह्मविद्या भूतविद्या क्षत्रविद्या नक्षत्रविद्या सर्पदेवज्ञविद्या नामैवैतन्नामोपास्स्वेति || (Chan. Upan. 6.1.4)

Meaning : Sanathkumara says - "Whatever you have studied is only a name. All the vedas (Rig, Yajus, Sama and Atharvana. As the 5th the Itihasa (history) and Puranas, the Veda of Vedas namely Vyakarana (grammar), Pitrya (Shraddha kalpa or the rites for the forefathers), गनित||Ganita (Mathematics), दैव || Daiva ( the science of portents), निधि || Nidhi (the science of time), वाकोवाक्य || Vakovaakya (logic) एकायन || Ekayana (ethics and politics), देवविद्या || Deva vidya (Etymology) ब्रह्मविद्या || Brahmavidya (the science of the Vedas, including vedangas) भूतविद्या || Bhutavidya (science of elements), क्षत्रविद्या || Kshtravidya (Science of war or Dhanurveda), नक्षत्रविद्या || nakshatra vidya (science of stars or astronomy), सर्पदेवज्ञविद्या || Sarpavidya (science of snakecharming and fine arts) - All these are the name only. Meditate on the Name."

He who meditates on the Name as Brahman, becomes independent as far as the Name reaches"

Narada maharshi then asks if there is something better than a Name. And Sanathkumara replies that there is something greater than the Name, which is capable of being thought of as Brahman. Thereafter, Sanathkumara in his brilliant exposition outlines a series of aspects starting with Speech greater than Name.

Speech is greater than Name (Chan. Upan. 6.2.1 and 2)

Mind is greater than Speech (Chan. Upan. 6.3.1 and 2)

Will is greater than Mind (Chan. Upan. 6.4.1 to 3)

Intelligence is greater than Will (Chan. Upan. 6.5.1 to 3)

Contemplation is greater than Intelligence (Chan. Upan. 6.6.1 and 2)

Knowledge is greater than Contemplation (Chan. Upan. 6.7.1 and 2)

Power is greater than Knowledge (Chan. Upan. 6.8.1 and 2)

Food is greater than Power (Chan. Upan. 6.9.1 and 2)

"there are two parts to be known in this Vidya, this is spoken by brahma vidas. One is paroksha jnana(knowledge which is from outside source), which gives "apara,vidya,which means knowledge of this realm, but para vidya means the experience which comes by inner science. branch is ‘Para Vidya’, which is through direct experience. The four Vedas and the Veda Shadangas constitute ‘Apara Vidya’which finally take the shape of real knowledge when they give svanubhuti (personal experience) to become direct knowledge which in turn helps achieve Parambrahma. This stage is called as para. This is explained in the Vishnu purana (1. Shabda brahmagamamaya). notably , Param brahma can also come from Viveka (discriminative intelligence) and need not come from mere words of knowledge. Yet it is important to say that words also play a significant role in brahma prapti (). Narada was stuck in shabda brhma () as revealed in his appeal to Sanat Kumar. Sri Krishna alludes to this in the Gita (VI:44) "जिज्ञासुरपि योगस्य शब्दब्रह्मातिवर्तते || " Notably, the person yearning for knowledge is absorbed in brahmanubhava (experience of brahman) which transcends shabdha brahma( all the scricptures or vidya) and drowned in brahma yoga( he is fully absorbed in the state of samadhi). For knowledge if has to be gained it has to be culminate in experience of brahman( supreme brahaman) if it does not lead to such conclusion then certainly such knowledge, will not even come to attain peace or perfection. This episode delineates this principle. This knowledge given by Sanatkumara is called Bhumavidya is also discussed in the Brahmasutras. Veda Vyasa in his 'bhumadhikarana," presents the following summary: Sanatkumara to Narada Muni: You are well-versed in the four Vedas including the Rikveda, yet your understanding of the scriptures is restricted mostly to the the namaroopatmaka (the perfection on the level of words), which is part of the Brahman. One who honors and worships Brahma (brahmopasana) will be free and be independent, (kamachari). Narada then asks Sanatkumara, "Hey swami, is there anything greater than Namaroopa, please enlighten me?" Sanatkumara replies said, "Nama originated from Vak (Speech), hence Vak is bigger. Nama is descriptive unlike Vak is on the tongue and other eight places. It is the Indriya (senses) which reveals all the Varnas (alpabhets). Vak enables one to master the Vedas including Rik as well as all other knowledge (Vidya), the planets, the five elements, the Devas, the humans, all living beings. It provides the knowledge and discriminative intelligence to understand Satya (), dharma () and adharma (). Notably, without using for vak for such reason, the self study, Artha (), Sravana () and knowledge is not possible. Therefore Vak is also Brahman and must be worshipped. Depending upon the depth of of Vak, to that extend you will get freedom, oh Narada."

Narada then inquired if ther was anything higher to know than Vak, to which Sanatkumar replies: The mind is higher than Vak and to illustrate he gives the following example. Just as one holds two amla (goodeberry) fruit or Badri fruit in one’s fist, similarly the mind holds Vak and Nama. If the mind involved one is able to study, only if i mind is involved one can perform action. It is because of the mind, one desires wealth and children. Such a person can achieve this world or the higher world. The mind is a part of the vishwatman (atma of the universe) and the Parambrahma. Based on this understanding one should worship, as this will lead to greater freedom. Narad Muni continues to ask Sanatkumar questions. He asked - is there any other principle higher than this? To which Sanatkumar says: Sankalpa (resolve) is higher than mind and it is within its purview that we are able to do karma and achieve success. dyava,(land of light), prithivi (bhoomi)) Panchabhutas (five elements), rain, prithvi (Earth), Anna|अन्न (), Prana|प्रणा () mantra (), Karma () are all dependent on sankalpa and therefore it is essentail to understand sankalpa as Brahmarupa. By being rooted in Sankalpa, one is led in the direction of greater freedom. Narada muni continues to ask many questions and Sanatakumar answered; chitta (), dhyana (), vijnana (), Bala (), Anna|अन्न (), apa (), Tejas|तेजस (), Akash|आकाश, smriti, asha( desires) and Prana|प्रणा. Chitta is the inspiration for sankalpa (resolve). All that has been described previsoly, they rest on sankalpa.. Dhyana| is superior to Chitta. Vijnana| which is experiential and evidence-based is superior to dhyana as is the progenitor of dhyana. Only through this can one have a proper understanding of Vivekabuddhi and also of Brahma. It is the bala (strength) of the grain that makes mind strong and right disposition. Thus grain is higher than knowledge.. If one does not get nourishment for ten days then whatever one sees, hears, contemplates, performs action and experiences the results of one’s work will be lost due to under-nourishment. Therefore grain can be seena as a part of brahma. Anna|अन्न is born of water and without rains there is no Anna|अन्न. The manifested forms, all lokas| (), Devas|देव (), Sthavara () and living beings have their source in water. Therefore, water is Brahma|ब्रह्म. Apa (water) manifest from Tejas|तेजस it is the cause of the rain, without this there can be no rain. Therefore Tejas|तेजस is greater than rain. Similarly Akash|आकाश (Sky) is greater than Tejas|तेजस. The personification of Tejas|तेजस, sun, moon, stars and Agni|, these are dependent on sky. Without sky one will not be able to hear, or calling others is not possible. Hence this Akash|आकाश is also Brahman. Smriti|स्म्रिति (the inner dharma coming from the antah Karan(from inner core) is greater than the Sky as without Smirti|स्मृति , it is not possible to hear, contemplate and understand even with so many people being together. Only Smriti|स्म्रिति gives rise to the discrimination of children and animals. And therefore, Smriti|स्म्रिति is also Brahman, Smriti|स्म्रिति awakens when desire is there. It causes all human transactions and attaining cattle and children. Hence आशा || asha (hope) is greater then all the above discussed. It resides in the Prana (life force), just as the wheel in the balancing rod. Everything is dependent upon Prana. Prana is the father, mother, brother, sister, acharya and brahmana. When unfavourable words are uttered to the learned, it is condemned by saying, “dawn with you, you may be affected by the sin of killing mother, father and acharya. only when we have life such words affect, Once the life air leaves the body, even if one is raised to death penalty or burned to death, cut to pieces it does not make any sense. After death, when elders are cremated it is not termed as murder or betrayal, praised as a pious deed. Hence, Prana is the foundation for all. Those who are performing the activities of hearing and reflecting such people are called as 'ativadi' (too much opiniator) by general people, This is not abusive word. Even the life science professor should not reject himself being 'ativadi. Ativadi, only after experiencing the truth argues for the truth. It is recomended in the vedas as reality. Satya is pre-condition to Ativada, therefore ativada is greater than Prana. Everyone who has Prana is not ativadi, Satya is known through Manan (contemplation). Contemplation comes from Shraddha, but both of these come from Nistha (loyalty? Grounded/rooted). Without nistha, there is no श्रद्धा|shraddha]]. Self control, the concentration of Chitta caused by action flavoured by Tapasya is greater than nistha. This Tapasya is possible only to those who are contented (सुखी|sukhi). One who is not सुखी, cannot be active. "सुखामेव लभ्ध्व करोति || सुखमेव लब्ध्वा करोति || " "sukha meva labdhva karoti || " Meaning : the principle of contentment is superior all others. This principle is understood, such eternal happiness is dependent on incessantly dependent on something which is great and which is addressed as Brahman. The ordinary things do not give us true happiness; it can only produce unwanted longing, misery, disease, and life and death experiences. Bhuma|भुमा (big), the sanctuary for eternal happiness can be understood not by sight, hearing or perception) but by being fully absorbed in Yoga. That Bhuma|भुमा is Amruta, rest everything is small and Martya| (). As परम्ब्रह्म|Parambrahma is established by its own glory and not sheltered by anything, it is the root, shelter and the only source of Jagat. The ill-informed consider their children, wives, friends, cartels, horses, elephants, money, gold, vehicles, land, gardens, home and other possessions as bhuma (big). This is not my opinion, because all of these are sheltered by others. Real bhuma is not dependent on anything. Parambrahma is all pervasive and across all directions. On perceiving, reflecting and understanding this tattva one becomes a अत्मराति|atmarati (fully absorbed), अत्मक्रिद|atmakrida (whatever we do is offered to Ishvara) and अत्ममिथुन|atma-Mithun (emotionally free) and अत्मनन्द|atmananda (bliss in atma) (being attach to Brahmananda) and ultimately a स्वाराता|svarata (beyond any one to control). In other words, he becomes a jnani (wise person), free and achieves all the planets. The one who does not understand this principle remains dependent on others, and resides in temporary लोक|lokas. They become ordinary followers of worldly people and do not achieve freedom. The one who understands this principle achieves Prana।प्रणा (), Asha।अशा (), Smirti|स्म्रिति (), Akasha।आकाश (sky) from paramatma. he achieves all, what is explained previously up till Namabrahma. With the blessing of Paramtma one can achieve everything. After receiving Svarajya, the jnani, after crossing death, being freed from diseases while experiencing no miseries will perceive everything and can get anything he wants. The jnani, simaltaneously can extend in many bodies. For the brahma prapti and all the required sadhana food is the main ingridient. only if the food is pure then one's existence will be purified. from such purification, one will expereince eternal smriti(remeberance), and eventually one will be freed from all the knot in the heart and achieve liberation. In this way Narada muni who was freed from hate and attachment was taken to other side of the material ocean by Sanat kumar. Therefore, he is called as "skandha." The famous "bhuma vidya," has been descried in chandyogya upanishada of sama veda very captivatingly. Bhagavan, who is Brihat in size(brahat rupa) who is addressed as brahama, unless one understands him, no conscious being will ever expereince peace. considering insignificant sensual pleasure and their resources as everything is nothing but great illusion. The instruction given in this section is so relevent to the present civilization which is fully mechanistic in nature, understading this very important. All the vedas speak of the same message.